Tag Archives: tops

Newspaper article 新聞記事: Sendai: This Person and That Person – Hiroi Michiaki 仙台あの人この人ー廣井道顕

Hiroi-sensei has also appeared in newspapers as a well-known Edo top maker. Below is a translation of an article entitled “Sendai: This Person and That Person – Hiroi Michiaki” that ran May 14, 1982 in the newspaper Shūkan Sendai. See the original Japanese article at the link below.

廣井先生はよく知られている江戸独楽の職人として新聞記事で特集されています。1982年5月14日、「週刊仙台」が廣井先生についての記事を掲載しました。以下のリンクでアクセスできます。

Click here for the original article: 歴史記事はこちら

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Sendai: This Person and That Person – Hiroi Michiaki

A woodworker who makes Edogoma

Gifts for Children

May is the season of children who sprout up like bamboo shoots. It seems impossible that the main event of the month,  Children’s Day (May 5), has passed. But as luck would have it, the Museum of History and Folklore of Tsutsujigaoka opened the exhibit “The Production and Performance of Tops,” and the air is full of excitement from the invading children. Even though the exhibit is titled “production and performance,” the children have lined up to turn the lathe and paint the tops. That said, the children are engrossed and soon the husband and wife instructors have no spare time tmo rest. Hiroi Michiaki (48) and his wife, Kyōko, who set up a workshop in Fukurohara, Sendai, are the instructors. “What? A workshop? It’s not really that kind of thing, it’s a shabby old house,” Hiroi said. At the Citizens Festival in Nishikoen last fall Hiroi’s craft demonstrations were .

“I think it’s been about a year since I started the workshop. As for apprentices, right now I have seven pros and six amateurs. Among them is an assistant professor from Miyagi Women’s University, Landis-san, an American, and there are only two women. There are lots of top (koma) experts within the prefecture, but my [workshop] is Edo-style tops. And of course, my wife is helping, too.”

A tradition spanning three generations

Tops date back as far as 1,000 years ago

Koma (top)” is written in kanji as 独楽. They’re exclusively thought of as children’s toys, but there are also high-quality tops that [spin] along a drawn sword or the edge of a fan, or which, when rotating at great speed, have the legendary figure Ishikawa Goemon [appear to] leap out of an iron pot. These trick tops are generally the traditional “Edo-style” tops. Flashy tops are characteristic of the Genroku period (1688-1704), but among  historic tops, recently excavated ancient and medieval tops have been in the news lately.

“We know from written records that, since ancient times, tops were playthings, and this is substantiated by the actual items having been unearthed. If you divide them up into two [categories], there are ‘outside tops’ and ‘inside tops.’ Outside tops are like Sendai tops, tops used on the ground and that were exclusively used by boys, and inside tops were used by people of all ages and genders on tatami mats. If you divide them into types of play, there are those you spin using both hands, rubbing tops (momigoma), twisting tops (hinerigoma) spun with the tips of the fingers, and string-release tops (itobikigoma).”

Hiroi has Foreign Apprentices in his Workshop, too

Enjoying playing with tops

“If you divvy up tops even further, there’s flower tops (hanagoma), sumō tops (sumōgoma), vegetable tops (yasaigoma) like eggplants or cucumbers, spousal tops (meotogoma), roulette tops (ategoma), buzzing tops (unarigoma), howling tops (narigoma), two-tier tops (nidangoma), three-tier tops (sandangoma), throwing tops (nagegoma), fighting tops (kenkagoma), gambling tops (bakuchigoma) umbrella tops (kasagoma), chasing tops (okkakegoma), etc.”

According to records, there are over 200 types of Edo-style tops. According to Hiroi, among the string-release tops, there are some that look like they lift people up and spin. He deftly spins a spousal top made by one of his apprentices. Pinching the shaft of the top on the second tier and spinning it, the wife [seems to convey], “Well, honey, I’m going out!”

And if you [place] the tops onto each other again, they spin well together, and it looks like he’s going, “Yes, honey, have good evening!” and goofing around. There are also tops that are specifically meant for gambling, and these are often called by the kanji for koma. In an age of parody, when these tops are spun, it’s for the enjoyment of adults.

[Many of] these historic Edo-style tops were destroyed in the Taishō earthquake of 1923 and the air raids of 1943-1945, and the woodworkers scattered in all directions. Hiroi Michiaki is one of those people.

According to the Traditional Kokeshi Artisan Register, Hiroi was taught by his father Kenjirō and Agatsuma Kichisuke.From a young age he learned woodworking from his father, androm 1955, he learned painting from Kichisuke. During the Tokyo air raids, he relied upon his artisan colleagues and evacuated to Miyagi Prefecture, and after that set up a workshop in Sendai. [Today], he devotes himself in earnest to creating tops rather than kokeshi.

One family of wooden-toy artisans

Though slightly old, there are several features on the Hiroi artisan family, including the Bunka Publishing Bureau’s Japan’s Wooden Toys, edited by Kan’o Shinichi, and the special issue “Tokyo’s nostalgic wooden toys” in (銀花)Quarterly 30. The former was published in 1976, and the latter in 1977.

Hiroi Michiaki’s younger brother, Masaaki (44), is also who active in making traditional Edo-style tops in Ebina, Kanagawa. The writing in the article by  Hosoi Tokiko from Ginka’s editorial department and their regular female reporter is beautiful.

Putting together Hiroi’s story and what the reporter has written, the Hiroi family is one family that has continued for over two hundred years and three generations throughAsaaki, Kenjirō, Michiaki. Hiroi Michiaki’s grandfather, Asaaki, was employed as the doctor of a Tokugawa shogun, and after the Meiji Restoration, their family “took the pulse of their esteemed [employers].”  That they enthusiastically became Edo-style top makers for generations is interesting.

Now, let’s spin some tops.

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Media post メディアポスト: Janell’s Collection (Now) ジャネルとランディスー廣井コレクション(現在)

These photos show Janell’s collection of tops in the display case she kept in her home in Tennessee for many years. These photos were taken in 2013 when Janell was interviewed for the Carving Community project, and the tops are now held by the Morikami Museum.

長年テネシー州の自宅でケースに保管していたジャネルの独楽のコレクション。2013年Carving Communityプロジェクトのインタビューの際の写真。独楽はモリカミ博物館・日本庭園に保存されている

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メディアポスト:廣井先生、ジャネルとランディスー廣井コレクション(当時)

ジャネルと廣井先生。ジャネルが弟子として付いている間に集め始めた独楽と一緒に

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Media Post: Hiroi, Janell, and her collection (Then)

These photos show Janell, Hiroi-sensei, and the many tops that she began collecting while she was his apprentice.

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Newspaper article 新聞記事: Edogoma Spin Around the World 江戸独楽 世界を回る

An automaton top of a man eating dango, by Hiroi Masaaki.

In addition to Hiroi-sensei, his brother, Hiroi Masaaki, has also appeared in newspapers as a well-known Edo top maker. Below is a translation of an article entitled “Edogoma Spin Around the World” that ran December 31, 2007 in the newspaper Nihon keizai shinbun. See the original Japanese article at the link below.

廣井先生だけではなく、弟さんの廣井正昭先生もよく知られている江戸独楽の職人として新聞記事で特集されています。2007年12月31日、日本経済新聞が廣井正昭先生についての記事を掲載しました。以下のリンクでアクセスできます。

Click here for the original article: 歴史記事はこちら

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Nihon keizai shinbun (December 31, 2007)

Edogoma Spin Around the World

Creating automaton figures for 60 years and displaying them in 50 countries

Hiroi Masaaki

It has been over 60 years since I began creating Edo tops. My ancestor was a low-ranking court doctor in charge of the emperor’s health, but he, my great-grandfather, made his livelihood out of his hobby of making tops. I am a fourth-generation top-maker. Supposedly during the bakumatsu, the end of the Edo period, when Japan was divided into imperial loyalists and shogunate supporters, my great-grandfather and grandfather took up their swords. I was born into a top-making family, and I think that [the reason] we continued to be poor was that my relatives always fought, like everyone in that period of time. What a pain it was.

There are many kinds of tops, but Edo tops have a particular way of spinning, and there are also those that are automatons, coming to life as they spin. I don’t create just traditional forms [of tops] but also come up with new technical forms. I haven’t counted them, but I’ve probably invented around 4,000 or 5,000 types.

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Hiroi Masaaki

Entertaining Oneself During the War

I was born in 1935. I lived in Oshima, Kōtō Ward (Tokyo) with my mother, father, and three siblings. However, in 1945, my mother and two of my siblings were killed in massive air raids. We were driven out of our home by the fires from air raids, first to Kuramae, then Roppongi and Shirokane, one after another, and barely escaped with our lives.

It was also because of the war that I began to make tops. My friends were all evacuated outside of the city and I had no one to spend time with. One day, my father gave me a foot-powered lathe so I could make tops and other things to play with. I liked working with my hands, so every day I worked on the lathe.

After the war, at the invitation of a toy wholesaler in Kuramae, my family moved to Shiroishi in Miyagi prefecture. In Tōhoku we were able to obtain good-quality lumber. However, because my father had lost his wife and children, his heart wasn’t in his work. So my older brother and I made tops and kendama (cup and ball toys) and sold them on the Sendai black market. It was a time when there were no toys, so they sold quite well.

I finally returned to my hometown of Tokyo at the end of my 20s. I did demonstration sales, and during this time I began to make tops while earning a living . There was a traditional arts boom at the time, which popularized Edo tops, but the production wasn’t valued at all. However, I did find working out automaton devices interesting, so I diligently produced various tops even if they didn’t sell.

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There are also automaton tops where when you spin the top of the head, the dolls eat soba or sweet potatoes.

Fixated on the Mechanisms

There are no diagrams for top-making. For example, a sakadachi (“headstand”) top flips upside down while it spins, beginning to stand on its handle. When I made that, I only had the knowledge of experience that centrifugal force will make the heavy portion will face upward. After that, one makes the shape through trial and error. Brilliant people overseas seemed to understand the mathematical reasoning behind the tops flipping on their heads, but because they’re tops, they have to spin.

When I come up with an idea for an automaton, I don’t ever give up until it’s been realized. There’s one top, “Momotarō” (Momotarō the Peach Boy)—when you pull the string and make it spin, the peach part is supposed to pop open so you can see the little boy— but the peach’s mechanism doesn’t open properly. I thought about it for days on end. I made an adjustment to the placement of the elastic, and when the peach popped open smoothly a bell went off somewhere. It was New Year’s Eve of 1965.

The first of those to value the production of tops [as art] were people overseas rather than in Japan. Twenty seven years ago, I took about 70 of my works to the Musée des Arts Décoratifs in Paris. I took more traditional-style tops, too, but the curator said, “I’ll only collect items that you designed yourself.”

Perhaps because I gave a dubious expression at that, he said the following: “While it’s important to pass along tradition, there’s no meaning in contemporary artists recreating, say, Greek sculptures exactly the same way they were 3000 years ago. Rather, there is value in contemporary artists creating new art.” That I am able to proudly say today that I am producing tops that are my own work is because of his words to me.

From then on, I was invited to share Japanese culture with people overseas and traveled around the world, taking my tops with me. I’ve probably been to about fifty countries by now. I think of tops as toys but to people in other countries they’re seen as art. From the perspective of a craftsman, shaking hands [with such a person] is somehow embarrassing.

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The Tops in People’s Hearts

When this article is published on New Year’s, surely I’ll be in my studio  turning the lathe. For complicated mechanisms, sometimes it can take as many  as 10 days to produce them. Even though I’ve been on this path for 60 years, that’s nothing to boast about. If one cannot do their craft skillfully, that is nothing but failure.  The idea that tomorrow I will be able to make even better tops tomorrow than I did today—that is what has kept me going for such a long time.

A top that’s well-done has a vertical handle that stands up straight and doesn’t wobble in the slightest when it turns. When it [spins so well] that the top appears perfectly still while spinning, I call this “sleeping.” When I look at a “sleeping”” top, the words someone once said to me come to mind: “There is a top in our hearts. If the axis doesn’t wobble, your life is on the right track.” On New Year’s Day, I’d like to examine my own heart’s top as I see children playing with theirs.

— Hiroi Masaaki

Newspaper article 新聞記事: “Edo tops” made in Sendai 仙台でつくられる「江戸ごま」

Hiroi-sensei has appeared many times in Japanese newspapers. Below is a translation of an article entitled “’Edo tops’ made in Sendai .” See the original Japanese article at the link below.

廣井先生は多数の新聞記事で特集されています。「仙台でつくられる「江戸ごま」」という記事も掲載しました。以下のリンクでアクセスできます。

Click here for the original article in Japanese.

日本語での記事はこちら

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“Edo tops” made in Sendai

These endlessly beautiful items…
“For me, there is only this path.” – Hiroi

When you say “tops,” you might imagine tops you’d play with outdoors, but these are “land tops” (jigoma 地独楽). Edo tops are a type of tops known as known as “parlor tops”“(zashikigoma 座敷独楽),  which you enjoy by spinning them in your home and decorating with them. In addition to single-block tops, there are all kinds of tops that rely on centrifugal force.

The blueprints for the tops are in my arms

“Even if you ask me how many types [of tops] there are,r” says artisan Hiroi Michiaki of the tops he has vividly colored, “If you were to categorize them like kokeshi, it would probably be over a thousand. Well, probably about 600.”

To the question “are there blueprints?” Hiroi says but one word: “No.” When I reply, “Then they must be in your head, right?”, he says, “No, there’s nothing in my head. But these arms have memorized them. My hands move on their own.” I’m speechless for a little while at this perhaps profound statement.

Edo tops—Wax polish makes the bright colors–the characteristic red but also purple, green, and yellow– stand out all the more. Once, these tops were intended for the children of high-status warriors and wealthy merchants, having little to do with commoners. As such, the finishing touches were minded to the smallest detail, and except for the single block tops, “they express the characteristics and old tales of each time period, and there’s no [top] without a history.”

This is something that can be said for all of Hiroi’s wooden toys, and even if they appear to have no origin story, that is simply a product of having forgotten it in the present day.

The spirit (kokoro) that protects tradition

When asked about the “spirit” of continuing to make Edo tops, a central part of [Japanese] wooden toy traditions, he dismissed this question smoothly, saying, “[Tops] are not something to tout as tradition. Because I was born an artisan, there’s no other path for me.”

On the subject of successors, he first said, “Right now about ten people are coming [to apprentice],” seemingly unworried, but added regretfully, “It would be difficult for them all to inherit [the practice].”

Why Edo tops in Sendai?

“During the war, we evacuated to Miyagi. We lost our chance to return to Tokyo,” Hiroi said, adding, “In Tokyo, there are many people in Tokyo with resources and many people who understand [our work]. And people who suggested I come back.” Saying that his younger brother was working hard on making tops in Tokyo now, Hiroi seems determined to preserve the Edo top tradition here in Sendai’s Fukuhara.

Hiroi also makes kokeshi, but doesn’t seem very interested in them.“Kokeshi are easier to make compared to tops, and sell well, but…” he said, although he was unable to identify the reason why he wasn’t motivated to make them.

There are Edo artisans here

Hiroi’s wife, listening to us nearby, says, “When we have an order deadline approaching he procrastinates. Then when he starts, he’ll skip meals and stay up turning the lathe late into the night. If he’s even a little unsatisfied with the result, he’ll just toss it out.” Because these tops now are being gifted to an orphanage , Hiroi-san has stopped tossing out ones he doesn’t like.  

Hiroi, who was born an artisan, aims only to create the best products. Right now, he only makes direct sales aimed at about sixty people without going through wholesalers. His reason is that “if you sell them in stores, they can mark them up to absurdly high prices.”

“Despite all the effort you put in, you don’t make much money. It’s the kind of work only an idiot could do,” Hiroi says [joking], finally adding, “This is the only path for me, now and forever.”

Janell’s Tops: Part 3

While Janell was an apprentice to Hiroi-sensei, he encouraged her to produce tops that dealt with themes related to American folk culture and lore that reflected both her background and the art and culture of her new home through traditional Japanese crafts. The photos below show tops Janell made in the 1980s. There are both western-themed tops and traditional Japanese tops.

廣井先生と展示

廣井先生が自分の作品を展示した時のことやその時の気持ちを語っている。江戸独楽が海外の美術館で展示されていることや江戸独楽が海外の収集家に注目されていることについて触れている。

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[13:57]

ポーラ:で、あのう、先生のお仕事についてですが、あのう国内のあのう、ご出張が多いでしょうか。

廣井:あぁ、ここで-

ポーラ:お仕事のために。

廣井:うん。仕事のため?

ポーラ:ご出張、ご出張とかは多いですか。例えば、ま、あのう、その江戸独楽を売るためとか、展覧会でとか、国内では多いですか。

廣井:そうですね。ほんとんど国内ですね。ここへ来てからは、そんなに行かないですけども、来る前は結構、行っていましたね。あのう物産展とかで、あちこちへ。ええ。やっぱり一番人気で、どこに行っても。

ポーラ:まあ一年間、何回ぐらい?

廣井:あぁ、多い時では、あぁ・・・三、四回、三回、四回は行ってました。あ!あぁ、もっと行ってた!ううんとね・・・ああそのうちほら、東京に弟が行くようになったから、そうだ。毎年ね・・・品物はずっと出して弟にやらしてたから、ほとんど一年中ですね。東京とか、大阪とか。弟が持って回って歩いてたからね。

ポーラ:で、あの弟さんはあの国際の展覧会があったとおっしゃいましたか。

廣井:あぁ、ええ。弟はね、結構外国、アメリカ・ヨーロッパへ、呼ばれて行って。なんかお陰さんでえらい人気でもって。だからさっきも言ったんだけどアメリカではあのシアトルの名誉市民にさせられた。ニューヨークも、名誉市民になんないかって言われたけど恐ろしいから断ったんだ、なんて言ってましたけどね。うん、そのぐらいあの、こう大事にしてもらって。

で、あーと、ドイツとかフランスの博物館なんかには、よく呼ばれて行ったし。で特別のコーナーも設けてもらってるみたいだし。で、なんだかんだ、フィンランドには弟の博物館ができたとかって。すごく、アメリカ・ヨーロッパの人には理解してもらって。これが、ちょっと、残念・・・なんですよね。もっと日本の人に、その何分の一かでいいから、ううん理解してもらえれば、もっといいのになぁと。残念でしょうがないんですけどね。

だから隣の国の韓国の人にまで言われたもんね。あの昔、あの韓国のテレビ、文化放送つったな、があの、取材に来たことがあるんですよ。で、その時に言われたのが、この工芸の里の人たちでは、は、みんな国の保護を受けているんですか?って、例えば人間国宝になってるんですか?って。でなんか韓国のソウルの近くにもやっぱり似たような、場所があって、そこにいる職人たちはみな韓国の日本でいう人間国宝だって言うんだよ。「ここは、も、そうなんですか?」って言われて「いや、ここはみんな個人で。県が作ったんですけど、みんな個人で借金をして、自分たちで立てて、自分たちで応援してやってるんです」って言ったらビックリしちゃって。「あぁ、それは気の毒ですね」って言われてしまって。(laughs)職人は国の宝なんですけどねぇなんて。韓国勝った、って言われて。(laughs)その時悔しかったね。(laughs)

[18:10]

ポーラ:で、あのうまた仙台の話ですが、ローカルコミュニティーとどのような関係がありますか。あの、特別な活動や展示をしますか。

廣井:はぁ、仙台で。

ポーラ:はい。

廣井:ここへ来てからはね…ここへ来てからは、あまりないんですけど、来る前は、ええとね、前・・・ここ来るまで、ええと何年間だ、三年か四年かな、あの駅前の、今ちょっとなくなっちゃったんだけどあの、十字屋デパートって、デパートがあったんですけど、そこで三年か四年、お正月に毎年、あの展示即売会をやってましたね。で、その十字屋デパートっていうのは小さなデパートで、あんまり人が入らないデパートだったんですけど、この江戸独楽の展示、お正月やる時だけは、なんか行列ができたんだって。であの、垂れ幕でっかいの付けて、えらい喜ばれて。十字屋デパート、仙台できて、初めてなんだ、あのお正月、夜中に行列ができんのは、なんて。

でそれ三年・・・で四年目にこっちへ来たから、四年目もやってくれって言われたけど、こっちに移ってしまったので、四年目はできなかったのかな。そしたら十字屋デパート潰れてしまったけどね。へへへ・・・。で今、今何になってんのかな、あそこな。何かになってっと思うんですけど。あダイエーと合併って・・・ダイエーと合併したっつったかな・・・。とにかく店はなくなっちゃったんですよね。デパートは。で、仙台でやったのは、十字屋デパートが大々的にやったのがその三年ぐらいと、後は・・・後はあまりやらなかったんだよな。後はたまにあのう・・・デパートであのう、こけし展やる、とか物産展やるからって、その時に、一緒に出したくらいで。あんまりなかったですね。であとこっちに来てしまったので。でも、そういうのやらなくても、あの好きな人がうちに尋ねて、いっぱい来てくれたんで、あのう売るのには不自由はなかったんですけどね。であとこっちへ来て、こっちへ来ればもう、お客さんがどんどん来てくれたし。

ポーラ:で、あの国際展覧会の機会することはありましたか。

廣井:あぁぁ・・・国際のね。なんかね、ううん、なんかよく分かんないんだけど、ううんと、あったことはあったな。直接ではないんですけども、その、集めた人が・・・ううんと、どこだったかな。アメリカではなかったですよね。ヨーロッパのどっかだね、フランスだか・・・あぁ、ドイツか。ドイツの博物館・・・で、なんか展覧会するからって言うので。持ってるものを寄付したんだか、飾って、ただ飾ったのか。あとドイツの方が来て、やっぱりその博物館の人が来て、うちの品物を見て、何点か買っていったこともあるし。

あとね、あぁ面白かったのは、あのう、フランスのあそこはどこだっけ。えぇ、仙台と姉妹都市になってるのが。ん?なんつったけな?えぇと、なんつったっけ・・・あれ、ちょっと忘れたぞ、名前。フランスの都市で仙台市と姉妹都市になってる・・・えぇ、ちょっと、レンヌ、レンヌ・・・ん?レンヌ??レンヌ、レンヌっつったかな。ちょっと、名前ちょっと忘れてる、レンヌ、かも分かんないけど。そこの市長さんが、独楽集めてたんだって。んで江戸独楽、が欲しくて、であのなんか交流で、あのそのレンヌ市から仙台市に、あの市の職人とかレンヌ市の市民が、来たことがあるんですよ。でそのときあの、工芸の里へ仙台市議の人が連れてきたのね、何人か。で、そっち行ってなんかこう色々話ししながら、こっから見えるんですよ。一人ね、赤ら顔のこの背のでっかい人がこっちの方を指さして、しきりに何か言ってるのね。でみんなしてこう、引き留めて、そすっとこう振り払ってこう、すごい勢いで駆け出したけど、こっちはビックリして、えらいことになったなと思って。オォ!って言ってたらオォ!っとか言って入ってきて、この鳴り独楽を、こういうの欲しいんだよ、なんて。で通訳の人、こう来たっけ、独楽を集めてて、で江戸独楽も何点かあるんだけど、どうしてもその鳴り独楽が、欲しくて、いたんだけども、仙台で作ってるのを聞いてるから、もう是非こう行きたかったんだって。でも今来ようとしたらみんなで引き留めるから、なんて、無理して引き払って、こっちに来たんだ、なんて。で、鳴り独楽ないですか。で鳴り独楽ちょうどその時あったんで、でプレゼントしてやったら、もうものすごく喜んで帰ってくれましたけどね。そんなことがありましたね、そう言えば。

[24:30]

ポーラ:そしてそのあのドイツとフランスの話はいつでしたか。何年-

廣井:あぁぁ…それは結構前だね。十…十五・六年になるかな。十五・六年にはなりますね。あと…ん待てよ、もっと前かな。二十年くらいになっか・・・?あぁ・・・ん?

うん、ううんと博物館で展覧会したときは…ちょうど二十年前だ。

仙台市の博物館、博物館でね。この江戸独楽の、展示をやったことがあるんですよ。そのときに、あとすごかったのは、あの博物館全部この江戸独楽を飾って、でそのときにランディス先生に、あの英語で、一言でこの江戸独楽を表現する、何か言葉ないかってんで、そのとき初めてランディス先生に「アンビリーバブル (unbelievable)」って言葉を聞いて。であの博物館の入口にでっかく「アンビリーバブル (unbelievable) 江戸独楽」って書いてあった。それからね、間もなくしてからテレビだのなんだので、この頃アンビリーバブルって言うようになったのね。そのときは、だから、日本でアンビリーバブルって言葉流行らしたのはランディス先生かも分かんない。へへへ。それまで、そういうこと知らなかったものね。だっけ、江戸独楽がその言葉にぴったりなんだって言われて。あぁそういうもんなだ、と思って、いたんですけどね。えぇ…ちょうど、んだから、またランディス先生が・・・うんと、あんときは…うん、やっぱり十七・八年前、前かな。その博物館で展覧会やった後だもんな、レンヌの市長が来たのは。で十、十七・八年前ですね。

その後、メキシコの国立博物館の館長さんだっていう人が、来たことがあるんですよ。ものすごいテンションの高い人でね。ウワアとこう大騒ぎして。もうフウォー!なんて、ものすごい大騒ぎして。女の人なんですけど。国立、メキシコの国立博物館の館長さんだったんだって。ものすごい喜んでくれて。で、結果どうなったんだかちょっと覚えてないんだけど。ふふふふ。もう大騒ぎして踊りまくってね。へへへ。すげえー、なんて思って。