Tag Archives: Akiu

メディア・ポスト:秋保工芸の里へ

ジャネルは日本にいる友人に会い、宮城学院でのホームカミングデーに参加するため、最後にもう一度だけ日本に行くことを決めていたが、その際ポーラとマリナも一緒に来ないかと提案してきた、廣井氏に直接インタビューし、コレクションの作品個々にまつわる話も聴くことができるから、と。数か月 資金調達に奔走し、キックスターターでのキャンペーンを成功させたポーラとマリナは、ミシガン大学日本研究センターの協力とキックスターター寄付者からの支援で2014年5月に1週間、ジャネルと共に日本の東北地方を訪れた。廣井氏の自宅がある秋保(あきう)工芸の里を訪ね、その熟練の業を目の当たりにした。2014年8月、ジャネルはフロリダ州デルレイ・ビーチへ向かい、モリカミ博物館・日本庭園へ足を運ぶ。コレクションの寄贈を受け入れてくれた博物館だった。

廣井先生のお宅と工房の写真です。それぞれの独楽のデザインを、基になった伝説や歴史の話を交えて説明し、独楽を回して見せてくれました。

Media post: Going to Akiu Craft Park

Janell, determined to travel to Japan one last time to see her many friends and attend her homecoming at Migyagi Gakuin, invited Paula and Malina to join her so that they could interview Hiroi in person and share in the Japan side of the collection’s history. After several months of funding inquiries and a successful Kickstarter campaign, Paula and Malina were able to travel with Janell for a week in May of 2014 to northern Japan with the support of the University of Michigan’s Center for Japanese Studies and Kickstarter contributors. There they visited Hiroi at his home in Akiu kōgei no sato 秋保工芸の里 (Akiu Craft Village) and were introduced to his artisanry in person.

These photos show Hiroi-sensei’s home, store, and workshop. He demonstrated how to spin various tops. He also explained the legends and histories behind the design of each top. 

 

 

Media Post メディアポスト: Photographs of tops by AriTV (AriTV撮影の独楽)

These are photos of Hiroi-sensei’s tops taken by ariTV, an internet-based television station supporting the promotion of events and cultural traditions of the Sendai area. 

ariTVが撮影した廣井先生の独楽。ariTVは仙台地域の伝統文化やイベントを紹介するインターネット配信をベースとする放送局

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Newspaper article 新聞記事: Looking Forward to the Creation of “Akiu Products” 「秋保産」誕生楽しみ

Hiroi-sensei has appeared many times in Japanese newspapers. Below is a translation of an article entitled “Looking Forward to the Creation of “Akiu Products” that ran April 20, 2004 in the newspaper Kahoku shinpō. See the original Japanese article at the link below.

廣井先生は多数の新聞記事で特集されています。2004年4月20日、河北新報が廣井先生についての記事を掲載しました。以下のリンクでアクセスできます。

Click here for the original article: 記事はこちら

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Hiroi Michiaki makes kokeshi at Akiu Craft Village. He hopes to create a kokeshi forest.

Kahoku shinpō (April 20, 2004)

Looking Forward to the Creation of “Akiu Products”

Steady Work on Making a Forest for Kokeshi

Sendai City/Akiu Craft Village Collaboration

In an attempt to promote the local woodworking industry,  Sendai City is embarking on a “kokeshi forest”-making project in the town of Akiu’s Taihaku ward. In collaboration with Akiu Craft Village, painted maple and dogwood saplings will be planted; those trees will become the pulpwood for traditional craft goods. Their aim is to eventually have kokeshi that are entirely made from “Akiu Products,” and to facilitate that, a planting event, for which city residents can volunteer, is planned for May 5 [2004] .

Pulpwood trees to be planted this year, too, on May 5

Dogwood trees are native to the Akiu area, but the region is very marshy, making logging work very difficult. Because of this, Hiroi Michiaki (age 70), an artisan of Akiu Craft Village who makes kokeshi, is supplied with woodchips made by the lumber workers of Miyagi Prefecture’s Kunomori Ward for his work.

However, for a number of years lumber imports have been increasing and the amount of woodchip production has gone down; dogwood preservation, too, is becoming more difficult. Planning the pulpwood through their own supply efforts, Sendai and Akiu began the “kokeshi forest” project in May of last year. The city-owned forests near the Craft Village are roughly 6 hectares, and they plan to plant about 10,000 saplings over the course of 6 years, finishing in 2008. In one year, they have planted 1,400 dogwood trees.

It’s projected it will take roughly 15 to 20 years for the trees to grow into usable materials, but Hiroi-san has said, “If the next generation of artisans is able to use local dogwood to make kokeshi and other goods, I would be happy,” and is watching over the saplings affectionately.

The planting event, sponsored by the joint Sendai and Craft Village project, will be held on the 5th and is recruiting volunteers to help the artisans plant 1,500 saplings in the city-owned forest area. They also plan to hold cultural exchange events, with woodworking workshops and atelier tours.

The Sendai City Agriculture, Forestry, and Public Works Division stated, “Through the collaboration of the artisans and city residents on this forestation project, we hope to assure the continuation of traditional arts and to deepen  our residents’ understanding of forestry and woodworking traditions.”

There are 100 volunteer positions available on a  first come, first serve basis. To volunteer, contact the Sendai City Agriculture, Forestry, and Public Works Division’s Forestry Branch at 020 (214) 8264.

Media Post メディアポスト: Hiroi’s shop 廣井先生の店舗

As a part of building the Akiu Craft Village and its community, artisans working there have each of their homes, workshops, and shops together in one building. In the following photos, we see Hiroi-sensei and Mrs. Hiroi in their shop, “Onkomaya Hiroi,” where they sell their tops, along with some photos of Hiroi-sensei’s work on display. New tops are always appearing in the shop, as Hiroi-sensei and his apprentice design new works, create seasonal tops, and recreate old favorites.

秋保工芸の里と、その里のコミュニティづくりの一部として、働く職人は工芸の里に自宅、工房、兼 販売店舗を一つの建物として所有している。つくった独楽を販売する「御独楽處 廣井」という店舗にいる廣井先生と奥様の写真や、廣井先生が陳列した独楽の写真をここで紹介したい。廣井先生とお弟子さんが新しいデザインをつくり、季節の独楽や、昔ながらのデザインをつくるたび、真新しい独楽が常に店に陳列される。

Newspaper article 新聞記事: Moved from Toshima, To Train in Akiu: Maeda from the Izu Islands

Hiroi-sensei and Maeda-san have appeared many times in Japanese newspapers. Below is a translation of an article entitled “Moved from Toshima, To Train in Akiu: Maeda from the Izu Islands” that ran January 10, 2008 in the newspaper Kahoku shinpō. See the original Japanese article at the link below.

廣井先生と前田さんは多数の新聞記事で特集されています。2008年1月10日、河北新報が廣井先生についての記事を掲載しました。以下のリンクでアクセスできます。

Click here for the original article: 記事はこちら

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Kahoku shinpō (January 10, 2008)

Maeda makes traditional artworks using reclaimed camellia wood, which is difficult to work with.

Moved from Toshima, To Train in Akiu: Maeda from the Izu Islands

“I want to become a woodworker using camellia wood in my hometown”

Akiu Craft Village in the Taihaku Ward of Sendai City and the Izu Islands near Tokyo are forming a closer bond. A man from Toshima has moved to Akiu and is training in traditional crafts. Given the opportunity to use reclaimed camellia wood from the Izu islands during his training at Akiu Craft Village, in the future, he hopes to return to his hometown as a woodworker specializing in their local camellia wood. For Akiu, they can also greatly increase the assortment of products they make, and their craftspeople have responded warmly, saying, “We this to become a bridge between Akiu and isolated islands of the Pacific.”

This man is Maeda Ryōji (26). While working a part-time job at a gas station in Sendai, he commutes to the “Komaya [Top Shop] Hiroi” workshop and is learning how to make tea cups, saucers, and tops.

The Hiroi workshop is managed by Hiroi Michiaki (74), one of the seven artisans of the Akiu Craft Village Work Association.

Maeda, after helping with his parent’s fishing business, worked at a company in Tokyo. In spring of 2004, he came to sell camellia oil at a product fair in Akiu Craft Village, where he by chance met Hiroi and developed an interest in traditional arts. In fall, he moved to Sendai.

Maeda says that his dream is “to master [everything], from methods of sawing to the making of ten types of edged tools using the lathe, then become the only woodworker in Toshima.”

In 2004, at the suggestion of local planner Aizawa Yū (51, Izumi Ward), the Work Association began a project to create new traditional craft pieces using reclaimed wood from Toshima. They received a donation of camellia wood from Toshima village and began their exchange selling kokeshi and accessory cases they made from it.

Compared with dogwood and other trees used for wooden toys, camellia has numerous hidden knots in the wood and becomes extremely hard when dried, making it difficult to work with. The products made from camellia have a particular texture and tint to them that give them a high-quality feeling.

Aizawa has said, “I thought we would join forces—Toshima, which had an issue with disposing of its old camellia wood, and the Craft Village, which was looking for a new challenge. We would be happy if Maeda became an independent craftsperson and inherited our traditional craft techniques.”

A map of Toshima 利島 off the coast of Tokyo and Yokohama.

“I don’t think there are any woodworkers in Japan that use camellia. I want to guide Maeda so he can readily become an independent artisan,” Hiroi said enthusiastically.

Toshima 利島 is located 140 km south of Tokyo. The population of the island, which spans about 8 km in circumference,  is around 300 people. More than half the island is covered with around 200,000 camellia trees, whichproduced about 14.5 kiloleters (3830.5 gallons) of camellia oil from their seeds a year in 2006–an estimated 60% of all of Japan’s camellia oil.

 

Making tops: Now

What does making wooden tops look like? How do they use the lathe to make this kind of art? Below we feature three videos of Hiroi-sensei and his apprentice, Maeda, at work, along with photographs of the present-day Hiroi workshop where Hiroi and Maeda have worked on the lathe throughout the years. The tops are made by placing a block of wood on the lathe and spinning it rapidly while cutting into the wood with metal tools. Paint is applied to the finished top while it spins on the lathe. Maeda has been Hiroi-sensei’s apprentice for over ten years and will inherit Hiroi-sensei’s shop.

You can listen to and read an interview with Hiroi on his own early apprenticeship here.

いまの独楽づくり

独楽づくりを見たことがありますか?どのように旋盤を使って独楽のような工芸品を作るのでしょうか?

廣井先生とお弟子さんの前田さんの仕事場での様子を撮影した3つのビデオ映像と、廣井先生と前田さんが一緒に何年も仕事をしてきた旋盤のある作業場でワークショップを行っている際の写真を載せています。独楽をつくるにはまず塊の木材を旋盤に固定して回転させ、金属の工具で削っていきます。独楽の形ができたところで、仕上げに旋盤で回転させながら色付けをしていきます。前田さんは廣井先生に弟子入りをして10年以上になり、廣井先生の店を受け継ぐことになっています。

廣井先生自身が弟子入りしていた時の話をインタビューしたときの音源とスクリプトはこちらのリンクでお楽しみいただけます。

Hiroi and the Life of the Artisan

In this interview segment, Hiroi-sensei describes the life of a woodworking artisan and the difficulty of maintaining Japanese traditional arts in the modern world.

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Paula Curtis: What are some of the biggest difficulties you have encountered working as an artisan?

Hiroi Michiaki: The most difficult thing… it’s nothing but difficult things, right? (laughs) There’s nothing that’s easy. Saying which one is most difficult– it’s all difficult. On the other hand, the thing that makes me most happy is when people who buy my tops enjoy them. If they go “Woooow!” I’m so happy. Other than that, every day I’m suffering. (grins)

Paula: (laughs) Those, well, difficult things, of course you said there are a lot of them, but did they change a lot over time? What was difficult–doing business? Selling them?

Hiroi: Well, the difficulty of being an artisan, the more you do it the more difficult it becomes. Other than that, selling them, I’m bad at selling them. So, yeah, I’m always at a loss.

Paula: Do you feel that artisanal professions are in danger of dying out? Why do you think that is?

Hiroi: Ah! Yes. This is the thing that troubles me most. Umm… why it is that Japan takes artisans for granted. If there are no artisans, I don’t think that they can even established Japan’s large businesses, but for some reason artisans are looked down upon and taken for granted. Umm…  people in administration also think little of artisans and don’t support us. I’m not saying we want [more] support, but I think we want them to value us more.

But Japan right now is developing only this one [type of] skill, and maybe the bottom, you’d call it, artisans are definitely at the very bottom [of those priorities]. Artisans make things [to be used], and at this time [those things] are made in great quantities, so large companies are established. And if those artisans gradually disappear, someone will say “Let’s [make] this thing,” and they probably won’t be able to. So there are a lot of artisans of different occupations, but in any case I want those people who are artisans to be valued more. That’s my wish.

Paula: Do you have a lot of apprentices compared to the past?

Hiroi: Ahh, yeah. So, um, this is, well, as for why apprentices increased, it’s because I was doing traditional kokeshi, umm… and there were a number of people doing kokeshi. So there were a lot of people who gathered to do that. And I was painting kokeshi, and selling them, selling them to collectors, and people were saying difficult things to me like “that’s wrong,” “this is wrong,” and I was very troubled, but I did my best at it, and became able to [make them] to a certain extent.

My name was published in kokeshi books, too. And at that time, I realized, “Ahh, in my home there was something even more precious than kokeshi.” There were a lot of kokeshi makers, and they would definitely survive [in the future], but the Edo tops of my family, there was only one house [that made those] in all of Japan. All of the world. The ones who inherited that were only me and my younger brother. Kokeshi [makers] weren’t like us, who were only one family, there were had hundreds, thousands. I realized that it would be impossible to revive it and leave it behind [after we died]. So I thought to myself that I had to increase our apprentices. And young heirs to kokeshi maker families… they came to me, and those young people said “Can’t we make a living not just doing the kokeshi from before?” and “I want you to teach me other things.”

At that time, there was another person here like Maeda-kun whom I was teaching. He was the son of a kokeshi maker, someone from Obara Onsen, he was someone famous, and this was his child. He was named Yūsuke, Honda Yūsuke. That was in Shiroishi, and the young sons of the kokeshi makers of the Yajirō [style] lineage came together and I had seven [apprentices]. And since Yūsuke said “I’m learning [Edo top making] right now at this place,” everyone else said they wanted to, too. And so they [all] came saying, “Will you teach us?” It was like asking if it’s true and going “It’s true!” And he was saying “Come with me everyone!” Those seven came to Shiroishi and I ended up teaching them.

Well then, my goods are different from kokeshi, and there’s a lot of different kinds, and you have to want to enjoy yourself, so first it was like “If you come to my home, it’s not work, it’s more like fun.” And everyone was like “Whaaat!” and was really surprised. Heh heh heh. One person really took that seriously and messed around and found a girlfriend and got married. Haha.

Now, for kokeshi, the Yajirō line is the best one, but he couldn’t really make tops well. He’d been learning for almost half a year but couldn’t make them. And kokeshi, well, his parents were kokeshi makers, so, first, first it was best for him to do kokeshi [instead of tops]. So he put all his efforts into kokeshi. And everyone else was doing tops. And of course I wondered if their parents were angry, if they were complaining. I thought, “I’m teaching their precious heirs unnecessary things!” Surely they must have been mad. But their parents all came and said “Please take care of them,” and bowed their heads to me. All seven. Contrary to it all, I was the surprised one. “Ahh this is serious,” I thought, and put my all into teaching them. I think usually one person can remember about a hundred types [of tops].

Paula: Umm, about these artisanal occupations disappearing, what do you think should be done about that? So that they become more popular?

Hiroi: Ahh. Yeah.

Paula: Do you think there’s anything that can be done?

Hiroi: I think it would be really good if they were popular. It’s regrettable that in Japan there’s not a system for that. Like I said before, if important people would take note of us artisans, wouldn’t a bit more traditional things and skills survive? And young people becoming artisans–you know there’s quite a lot of young people who want to become artisans But the world of artisans is difficult. And artisans are quite stubborn. And people are scared of that popular image, that they can’t get used to that [sort of life]. Heh heh heh. there are quite a lot of people who say “I really want to do that…” So I thought [it would be good if] it was easier for those people to become accustomed to it. I thought [to myself] “I want to teach them.” Umm… last year, a year and a half ago, in Sendai, our Craft Village, we wanted to do successor training, so the city gave us money. And five young people came.

And, ah– the city gave us wages. And we got quite a bit of money as an honorarium, too. It went on for a year and a half and it ended in March of this year. In the end those who stayed on were one person with Kotake-san, and Maeda-kun here with me, and another person, Misa-chan, a girl. Three of them were left. I think that if something like that [program] went on a little longer we’d have more young people come. And if they did it without such strict conditions. This time around, the conditions weren’t so tough, and that was good. Five people came and three stayed. I think that’s a huge success.

And doing something like that again, not just with the city, but with the prefecture, the country, if they did that, I think the number of young successors really go up. And, well, among the same artisans, places with money, they can steadily support young people themselves. Places like mine that don’t have any money, because of that people like Maeda-kun are doing part-time jobs but also want to learn, so they come [to us]. I think people like that can become the real thing. So I think that if [the government] extended its hand more to places like that, more young people could be trained, and I feel like Japan, too, would be a richer place for it.

廣井先生と職人としての生き方

廣井先生が木工職人の生活と現代社会で日本の伝統工芸や芸術を伝え守っていくことの難しさを語っている。

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ポーラ・カーティス:あのう、そしてまぁ職人としての生活にはあのう、一番難しいことが何だと思いますでしょうか。

廣井道顕:一番難しいこと・・・難しいことばっかりだな。(laughs)簡単なのっつうのはないですね。どれが一番難しいって言われると、全部難しいね。一番、逆に嬉しいのが、お客さんとか、買ってもらった人が喜んでくれる。ワァァってやってくれっと、ものすごく嬉しい。後は毎日苦しんでいます。(grins)

ポーラ:(laughs) その、まぁあの難しいことが、もちろん、多いと、おっしゃいましたが、まぁあの時間とともに、ま、多少変化しましたか。何が難しいか、あのその、ビジネスとか、売るのとか。

廣井:まぁ職人として難しさは、やればやるほど難しくなってくのね。あと、売る、売るのは苦手なんだよね。だからね、うん、損ばっかりしてんのね。

ポーラ:で、あの職人の、あの職業がだんだん消えつつあると思いますでしょうか。それはなぜだと思いますか。

廣井:あぁ!そう。これが一番、あのう困ったことだなと思って、あのう・・・なぜか日本は職人て言うと軽く見られるんですよね。で職人がいないと、あのう、日本の大企業だって成り立たないはずなんだけども、なぜか職人は、馬鹿にされるしね、軽く見られるし。あのう・・・行政の方でも職人は軽く見て、何の援助もしてくれないしね。援助が欲しくて言うんではないけど、もっと大事にして欲しいなと思うのね。

だって日本が今こんだけ技術が発達してんだってその底辺ていうか、一番下には職人が必ずいるんですよね。職人がモノを作って、それを今度機会で大量に作ってって。であの、大企業が成り立って。で、その職人がだんだんいなくなってくれば、あのう何か今度やろうつったって何もたぶんできなくなると思うんですよね。だから、職業は、色々職人もあるけども、もうとにかくその職人っていう人をもっと大事にしてほしいなあと。まぁ希望ですけどね。

ポーラ:ではあのう、現在は、昔と比べると、弟子が多かったですか。

廣井:あぁ、うん。だからね。あのう、これはね、なんで弟子を多くしたかというと、あのう伝統こけしをやって、うんん・・・あの、こけしやっている人も何人もいたし。だからそれを集めてる人もいっぱいいたんですけれども。で、こけし描いてて、で売って、あのう収集している人に売って、どうのこうの、あれがダメだの、これがダメだのと、難しいこと言われて、うんと悩んで、でも一生懸命やって、ある程度できるようになって。まぁ本なんかでも、

こけしの本とか必ず名前が載るようになって。でそん時にね、気が付いたんですよ。『あぁ、うちにはこけしよりもっと大事なものがあった』って。こけしはいっぱいこけし屋さんがいて、完全に残っているけど、うちの江戸独楽はうち一軒なんですよね。日本中で。ということは世界中で。それを引き継いだのは俺と弟の二人だけで。日本では、でうちの場合は、あの、こけしみたく一つだけではなくて、何百何千って数があるものですから。一人でそれを再現して残しておくっていうことが不可能だなってのが気付いて。これは弟子をいっぱい増やさなきゃならないと思って。そんであのう、こけし屋さんの、若い跡取りを・・・あのううちに来たんですよ、あのう、これから先こけしだけでは、生活していかれなくなるんでねえかっていうことで他のことも覚えたいんだって、若いのが。

あの時ね、うちであのう、一人、あのう今の前田くんみたく一人あのう、教えてやってたのがいたのね。それがあのこけし屋さんの息子で、あの小原温泉の、人なんですけど、これも有名な人なんですけど、その人の子供で。雄介、本多雄介っていう。それがあのう、白石で、あのう、弥治郎系のこけし屋さんの息子たちの、子供たちの若い人の集まり、で七人いるんだって。で、その雄介が『今自分はこういう所でこういうもの習ってんだ』っていう話をしたらば、みんなそういうの覚えたいなっていうことになったって。で『教えてくれるか』って来たから。本当かってったら『本当だ』って言うのね。で、『みんな連れて来い』っつって。でそん時七人、白石から来たんですよ。では、教えてやったっていうことになって。

でまぁ、うちの品物はこけしと違って、種類がいっぱいあるし、遊び心がいっぱいなきゃならないので、まず『うちに来るんだったら真面目になってないで遊びな』っつったの。したっけ『えええ!』なんてみんなビックリして。へへへ。で、一人、本気になって遊んで、彼女見つけて結婚して。へへ。

今、こけしでは弥治郎で一番ぐらいになってるね。でそいつ、こ、独楽できなかったのね。まだあのう習い始めて半年だかって言うんで、ほとんど独楽できなくて。ほんで、こけし、ま親がこけし屋さんだから、で、まず、でまずこけしやったらいいでねえかっつうことで。で、こけし一生懸命やって。他の人たちはみんな独楽やって。したらみんな親たちにてっきり『怒られるかな、文句言われっかなあ』と思って『大事な、跡取り息子に余計なこと教えた!』なんて怒られるんじゃないかと思ってたら、みんな親たちが来て「宜しくお願いします」ってここでね、みんな頭ついてったね。七人とも。これには、逆にこっちの方でビックリしちゃって。『あぁこれ本気なんだな』と思って、ほんで一生懸命教えてやって。で、大体一人でもう百種類ぐらいは覚えたんのじゃないのかなと思うんですけどね。

ポーラ:あのう、まぁこの職人の職業がその、あのう消えつつある問題についてですが、どうすればいいと思いますでしょうか。あのう、そのまあ、人気があるように。

廣井:あぁ。そうね。

ポーラ:何かできますか。

廣井: そういうのがあると本当いいんですけどねえ。残念なことに日本にはまだそういう制度ないし。もうちょっと、偉い人がさっきも言ったように職人に、えぇ、こう、目を向けてくれれば、少しは、伝統的なものとか、技術が、残るんじゃないかな。で、若い人も、職人に、結構職人になりたい若い人いるんですよね。でも、職人の世界って難しい。で職人っていうのは頑固でなかなか。こう、馴染めないっていう、そっちのイメージの方が多くて恐ろしがってね、へへへ。なかなか『やりたくてもなぁ・・・』っていう人結構多いんですよね。だから、そういう人たちにね、もっとこう、スムーズに馴染んでもらって。育てたいな、と思っていたんですけど。ええと、去年ね、ええと一年半、仙台市で、この工芸の里で、後継者の育成をしようっていうことで市の、市がお金を出してくれて。で五人、入れたんですね若い人を。

で、あー、市で給料を出してくれて。ほんで教える方も、謝礼金として結構なお金、もらったんですけど。一年半続けて、で今年の三月でそれ終了したんですけど。んで結果的に残ったのが、うんと、小竹さんのとこに一人、うちに前田くんいるし、もう一人あのう、みさちゃんって女の子がいるんですけど。三人残ったんですけど。で、そういうことをもう少し続けてやってくれれば、もっと若い人が来ると思うんですけどね。で、あまりこう難しい条件、つけないでやってくれって言うんですけど。で今回はね、そんな難しい条件でなくても良かったし。で五人来て、ま結果三人残ることになったんですけど。大成功でないかなと思うんですけどね。

でこういうことを、こう繰り返し、市ばかりでなくてね、県とか国で、やってくれれば、若い後継者が日本中で結構増えると思うんですけどね。でまあ、同じ職人でもほら、うんとお金のある、所はね、自分の所でどんどん若手を育てることできるけど。我々みたいにお金のないのはね、それこそ前田くんでもみたくアルバイトをしながら、でも習いたいっつうんで来てた。そういう人たちあの、ホンモノになれると思うんですよね。だから、そういうところにね、もうちょっとこう、手を差し出てくれれば、もっと若手育てられて、日本も、もうちょっと豊かになれるような気がするんですけどね。